Hi,

Where would i find a good tutorial for windows API? I began learning C++ in linux, and i've pretty much done all the object programming and templates and everything i think i'll ever want to do.

i want to actually begin writing programs for windows. where can i learn the windows API commands for windows.h?

Avoid web tutorials (for kids only)
Read the Petzold then the Richter. And MSDN.
For advanced and undocumented apis, you can ask on (professional) win32 api newsgroup :
news://nntp.aioe.org/comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32

buying books is difficult where i live because i don't live in an english speaking country. also, i'd like to avoid amazon. where can i get my hands on these books?

so there are no good web tutorials anywhere? i was hoping there would be one.

You could start here:
http://www.winprog.org/tutorial/start.html

then go on to MSDN

http://msdn.microsoft.com/

As I said, Web tutorials are not done by professionals, but by kids, for kids.
All the books are in ebook (chm) in P2P or anywhere else.

george135 wrote:
| As I said, Web tutorials are not done by professionals, but by kids, for kids.

That's a bit of an over generalisation.

Hahahahahahaha. Nice one george135, you made me chuckle, until I realised you were probably serious, then I just felt ill... eww.

I wouldn't use "over generalisation", I would say b**l*cks.

A vast majority of web-tutorials are done by people who are using a book anyway and are experimenting with WinAPI. Therefore they most probably run into the same errors as you will, and maybe warn you about them, and hell, maybe even explain them!

Not only do books cost money but there are an awful lot of books out there that read as if they're done by kids! And some are just so uninformative that it hurts!

So, george135, I don't know from which high horse you allow yourself to make such snide remarks, but you my good sir, are an idiot.

I agree with Grey Wolf in saying that's an excellent tutorial.

Ok, you're a kid who knows nothing about win32 api.
Web tutorials are written by noobs only, who aren't even able to do a basic IAT patching or a simple rootkit.
Read Richter, Pietrek, Solomon, Russinovich and you'll understand what is Win32 api programming.
Pathetic...

Who said he wants to hook API or try and develop a rootkit? It's a bit forward to think just cause he is from a non-english speaking country he wants to write malware =\

MSDN is a good source, but you should be able to just google Win32API and get a CHM/.HLP file with a list of all of them. Thats what I use anyways.

enixi0s, you're certainly not a professional
Internet "tutorials" ar indeed ridiculous (and learn bad things)
They are even 10 times less complete than the first chapter of Petzold's book !
When an IT consultant gives a real programming course, he's paid...

"When an IT consultant gives a real programming course, he's paid..."

And sadly I've made the mistake of taking 5 day $3000 course taken by a "paid consultant". Had my employer not being the one paying the bill I would've left and refused to pay. Biggest waste of time I've ever sat through. I've seen mockery courses taken by SUN, SeeBeyond and other global companies that are nothing but a huge waste of money.

But that highlights common ground here. While some internet resources are awesome, some are going to be crap. The same is going to be true with books (just read the crap SAMS release), and again true with paid consultants.

It doesn't matter what media you use, as long as you can find material thats presented in a way that you can learn efficiently from.

Of the 3 discussed here, I personally prefer online material. It's faster to access, easier to search through and I can compare multiple sources without having to scan through books or talk to different people.

Here's the most comprehensive tutorial I've been able to find. It walks you through encapsulating the API into classes. It can be a little challenging to follow at times, but if you stick with it, you won't be dissappointed.

http://www.relisoft.com/win32/index.htm

I find this sort of opinion interesting, painting all web tutorials as bad but also making reference to MSDN with its own load of tutorials.

It also makes me wonder about the people make the claims, they obviously think that any tutorial on sites like this are not worth the time and they don’t seem to participate in the forum, other that occasionally saying things like “you should try Usenet only professionals’ there.” Or “All web tutorials are for kids”. So why do they hang around?

As Zaita said, you can’t justifiably make claims about the quality of the knowledge published, only by the media it is published in. I also don’t see the relevance of any imbursement has on the quality of the knowledge presented. There are good books out there and there are diabolical books, the authors still got paid.

As to the ‘completeness’ of the knowledge presented, you are always going to be given an incomplete article; even Petzold doesn’t cover everything, if it did you wouldn’t need Richter et al. The only way of teaching anything is to give the person learning what they can handle at there particular level (How many people think there is a centrifugal force?). This may fuel someone’s bigotry as they will look down on such information as incomplete or inaccurate but to the person leaning it may be the next vital step on the learning curve.

Edit:
A little side note on Usenet (newsgroups); as they are pretty much open to anyone you can’t guarantee the quality of any content posted there in. My experience of open, un-moderated Usenet groups is that there are a large number of whelps trying to make themselves look big. If you want ‘professional’ help on advanced topics, a much better place would be something like the Microsoft Forums or even the managed MSDN newsgroups.

As for undocumented APIs; they are undocumented for a reason, usually because they are subject to change or deletion without warning. I would hope that any self-respecting professional would advise against using such APIs.

"The only way of teaching anything is to give the person learning what they can handle at their particular level"

Wise statement Grey Wolf. I don't think our reason for being here is telling who's or who's not professional. If people learn from forum discussions where anyone can write anything irrespective of their professionalism, why shouldn't they (especially if they are beginners) learn from tutorials?

I assume anyone who says all web tutorials are worthless should also say the same thing for forum discussions like this one and actually should just look for "discussions among professionals" if they exist.

Just remember that a humble habit a learner should have is to recognize that anyone who knows what they don't know (even the smallest thing ever) and who's willing to share it is welcome to be their teacher for that particular thing. Anyway, every professional was a beginner first.

Oooooh things got a little heated here hihi.
I'll just say I agree with Grey Wolf in saying that it's all part of a learning curve.

And carl and george135 are both right.
I am not a professional, I am a student.

If I were a professional, of course I would buy a book as reference simply because of the standard needed.

As, I am still a student, noob, kid, I guess I'll just ASPIRE to be as PROFESSIONAL as carl and george135.

Grey Wolf & Amag, wise words.
Where is teh leov?
^^